Resisting tribalism and being an optimistic doomer
The latest instalment from my USA trip: on building community across political divides
How do we respond when we see systems and ecologies crumbling around us?
Environmental sociologist Ashley Fitzgerald decided that despite being a self-proclaimed “doomer”, she was going to do whatever she could to cultivate meaning and hope in these challenging times. In today’s episode, we talk about why she decided to leave an idyllic homesteading life in Uruguay and return to “the centre of Empire” in her home city of Chicago.
Jump straight to the episode here, or listen on your podcast app.
Ashley’s is the co-founder of the aptly named Doomer Optimism podcast, where she facilitates conversations and events around regenerative paths forward, with people from across the political spectrum. For Ashley, the need for collaboration across ideological divides is key; she explains that through her research on farmers and gardeners she saw that many of the most sustainable practices were done by people who would not claim to be interested in “sustainability”. She explains,
“I had this lightbulb moment. There’s a way bigger coalition out there. But it can’t be ideological. It’s got to be practical.”
This brings us into (what is now considered) thorny territory. Can we really talk to and even collaborate with people who don’t share our ideological convictions? What can it look like to build community based around place and practice, rather than ideology?
I’m very interested in how we stand up for what we believe in, without falling into the tribalism of us versus them. Ashley comments that,
“You don’t get to live in a functioning, diverse society without some measure of moving beyond the tribal mindset. You have to have some grace for people. You have to see them as a whole person.”
I think one of the reasons we find this so hard is that we increasingly deal with the world through representations and abstractions; we consume media, skim statistics or read Substack posts like this one. And although valuable and necessary, this mode of interaction will always be curated and partial. Inevitably, it’s different to see a political opponent on television than to share a meal with them. The latter may be more uncomfortable, but probably more complex, rich, paradoxical and, well let’s face it, real.
In her recent post, Dr Sharon Blackie reminds us what myths and fairy tales have to teach us on the subject of “the Other”: you must always welcome in the stranger. You must set out an extra plate on the table, and a bit of bread and some wine if you have it. If we turn away the stranger seeking shelter, things don’t end well.
In a similar vein, writer and podcast host Elizabeth Oldfield beautifully describes the embodied experience of a whole room tensing up when disagreement about a key issue (migration) came up at a conference in the US, and how they managed to move through that into a meaningful conversation. One person commented that they felt they had observed “a small miracle”. Perhaps every true conversation with people we disagree with is a small miracle, and it’s these small miracles we need more of.
I’ll leave you with this final quote from Ashley, about the historical moment we seem to be inhabiting:
“Seemingly we’re at this crossroads. Who do we want to be? Do we want to be the facilitators of computers talking to each other? Do we want to be the money makers for corporate media? Or do we want to be neighbors and mothers and friends and advocates and farmers and gardeners?”
I hope you enjoy the episode, and let me know what it brings up for you.
Thank you for your lovely feedback on the previous episode with interspecies musician David Rothenberg. It’s come to my attention that the eminent Weird Studies Podcast recently did an episode on animal songs, where David’s work also is referenced. So if you want to continue tumbling down that delightful musical rabbit hole, you can listen here.
And here’s a reminder about the campfire gathering I’ll be doing with professor Keri Facer on the Lost art of Listening in Uppsala, Sweden, this Thursday October 2nd. All information is here. Right now it’s basically fully booked, but you can sign up for the waiting list in case spots open up, by emailing ingrid@forestofthought.com.
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This has been the second newsletter/post coming to you from Forest of Thought’s new Substack. I’ll be using these dispatches as a way to share new episodes (published every other Tuesday), essays and events, in a way that is more direct and free from the tentacles of Meta. The newsletter is free, but if you want to support the podcast it’s also possible to become a paid subscriber, which includes some bonus content and perks.
Look forward to speaking to you again in two weeks’ time!
Ingrid