VIDEO VERSION (WITH ROBERT MACFARLANE’S SLIDES):
In spring of 2020, in a notebook titled “Anima”, Robert Macfarlane scribbled three questions:
Can a forest think?
Does a mountain remember?
Is a river alive?
The final one, he says, kept tugging at his sleeve, and four years later brought us the book carrying that question on its cover. It’s a beautiful and heartbreaking meandering journey along the courses of three rivers, or communities of rivers, some of them vital but threatened, others dying or already pronounced dead. If a river can die, Robert says, then surely it should be possible to consider it as a living entity?
But it’s clear throughout the book that Robert doesn’t find it easy to answer the question he has posed. I love the story in the first chapter, where Robert’s son asks him the name of the book he’s writing and upon hearing the answer bursts out: “Well, duh, Dad. That will be a short book, because the answer is ‘yes’!”
This short but telling exchange says so much about our culture. Why is it that most of us do not take the statement “a river is alive” as a self-evident truth in the way that children do? Come to think of it, in the way that pretty much every single culture except our modern one has done? That’s one of the questions we explore in today’s episode.
Last month, Robert Macfarlane visited Stockholm on the occasion of the release of his book in Swedish (Ocean Books, 2026). I was honoured to host a conversation between him and my friend (and previous guest on the podcast) ecologist Pella Thiel.
In a room filled to the brim with lovely audience members, we talked about what practices might help us to affirm the aliveness and interconnectedness of the more-than-human world, about the possibility of nature having rights, and about how “our fate flows with that of rivers”, as Robert puts it.
This episode is a collaboration with KTH Environmental Humanities Laboratory and Pella Thiel’s On the Rights of Nature podcast. A special thank you to Jeppe Wikström and Ocean Books for making the event possible.
I hope you enjoy the conversation.
Ingrid
P.S. to my attentive listeners: This was a small break from the Blood Mysteries series. The final two episodes of the series are coming up next!
P.P.S: For those who don’t know Robert Macfarlane’s wonderful collaborations with incredible musician Johnny Flynn, be sure to have a listen – and enjoy stunning animation by Lynn Tomlinson.
Talk in Stockholm, Tuesday April 28th, 19.00
For those of you who are in the Stockholm area and speak Swedish: I’m giving a talk at Stockholmspalavern, a wonderful initiative aiming to create public spaces for conversation and dialogue. My talk will introduce the theme of the evening: “Det läkande i att lyssna och det nödvändiga i att lyda – om vår relation till naturen”.
En av modernitetens huvudprojekt har varit att få naturen att lyda oss, och till stor del verkar vi ha lyckats; vi har underkastat oss alla världens land och hav, dragit ner den elektriska blixten i kablar, genmodifierat grödor, plöjt atomer, och kontrollerat vädret.
Men gensvaret har också varit tydligt; vi befinner oss i en tid av ekologisk kris och massutrotning, och riskerar rasera möjligheten för vår egen fortsatta överlevnad. Vi ställs inför ett krav: “Du måste förändra ditt liv,” i Rilkes ord.
Efter att ha till stor del övergivit föreställningen om en allvetande gudomlig Fader, har vi under längre tid lydit under andra, mer subtila auktoriteter, ofta helt oreflekterat. Är det nu dags att underkasta oss en annan auktoritet, nämligen Livet? Kan vi hitta in till den läkande kraften som finns i det djupaste lyssnandet?
This will be followed by conversation with participants. Find all info on the website – I would love to see you there!
